what adhesive to use to lay tile flooring on concrete Written By Stoner Hatteniou1990 Friday, April 8, 2022 Add Comment Edit How-do-you-do All I am nigh to attempt to tile my conservatory Floor(porcelain floor tiles) Which has just been laid. Does the new physical demand to be sealed Before i can lay the tiles? Help! Nev Hi I recently tiled my conservatory. First matter i'd cheque is that is as close to level all the way across. I didn't and topped up using more adhesive than I should of to make upwards for the deviances in the floor. The physical should exist sealed. What sealer y'all employ is dependant on the adhesieve you use. I used diluted PVA it advised this on the adheiseve I was using (although I read somewhere on one of these forums you shouldn't utilize PVA). This prevents the flooring from sucking the moisture out of the adhesive before information technology sets and seals in any grit on the surface. PVA isn't practiced, don't use it with whatsoever course of tiling... You should seal the floor with a suitable primer that is compatible with the adhesive you buy. i.e. buy Ardex primer for Ardex agglutinative, BAL primer for BAL adhesives... Finer it stops the draw (the sponge effect of the dry out concrete) and creates a better adhesive bond. Likewise with porcelain tile, bank check that the adhesive y'all choose is suitable for porcelain, ceramic tile adhesive is not good enough. A quick read of the pocketbook should tell you lot that it's suitable. BAL produce most of their adhesives containing "Porcelbond" and additive which makes them suitable for porcelain tile. But Ardex don't - so you would accept to apply an expensive admix - Ardion 90 to overcome this. Do your homework and y'all'll be only fine. Mudster You say don't utilise PVA on any form of tiling. All the advice I've ever been given has said use PVA to prime walls/floors. When I search websites for info on this I can find diverse websites that tell you to use PVA just none that tell you not to. This website is a proficient instance http://world wide web.axp.mdx.air conditioning.uk/~john49/tilefaq.htm (sad it'due south non a proper "link" as I don't know how to insert them) If you read whatever of the website in item the guy actually seems to know his stuff. I'm non proverb you don't. I'm just puzzled as to the conflicting advice. Plus I don't want my tiles to autumn off of my bathroom walls or come loose from my floor as I primed with PVA. Squeaky In that location are many roads to Rome. What works for one person is a disaster for another - such is life! I think there are many unlike grades/types of PVA product on the market. Over-dilution with water causes issues likewise. Hello Squeaky, I took a look at the webstie you lot linked, this sadly is the misinformation I'm faced with on a daily basis. I should expand on who I am and why I appear to hate PVA so much! I'm a professional tiling contractor, I now mainly specialise in natural products but over the years I've stuck upward (or down) every blazon of tile there is. I take to give guarantees for my work (many of these projects are commercial such every bit sports center showers and changing rooms). For me to be able to give guarantees I need to follow strictly the specification of the adhesive manufacturers. Ardex, BAL and Nicobond are the 3 suppliers I utilise most. Their products are similar in many respects, sometimes one will make products the other don't, and I as well find some of there products more useful in different applications. All three of them have i thing in common, they all specifiy that nether no circumstances may PVA be used before using whatever of their adhesives. If you do all guarantees are void. OK why and so? Well I asked this question to Ardex when I one time had problem, I'd tiled a bathroom that had been constructed in 25mm Marine ply. Thinking he was doing the right thing, the builder got his guys to seal the ply with unibond PVA...I wasn't aware of this. I tiled it and 6 months later every single tile fell off the ply, the adhesive solidly stuck to the tile but came make clean a whistle off the ply. We had Ardex Technical downwards to the site to compile a report, the footing of which was it's the PVA that causes the trouble. When you treat a surface with PVA it partly soaks in and parlty sits on the surface of the substrate much in the same fashion equally wallpaper paste. If PVA gets wet information technology becomes slightly alive again, it doesn't completely return to information technology's liquid state simply it becomes viscid. When you spread tile adhesive onto the wall, the water in the adhesive makes the PVA live and stops the agglutinative from penetrating the substrate and providing a mechanical grip. Basically your tiles, grout and adhesive are being held to the wall by a thin layer of PVA. Most tile agglutinative works past crystalising when it sets (some are slightly unlike such as epoxy based ones) but generally they all work the same manner. In one case the agglutinative starts to gear up crystals from and expand into any imperfections in the substrate surface (at a microscopic level) to create a grip. PVA stops this process by creating a bulwark between the substrate and the tile adhesive. Ok and so whats the divergence betwixt this and Ardex or BAL primer, well basically the tile manufacturers primers soak right in to the substrate and stop the sponge like "draw "effect but they don't glaze the surface in any fashion, they are an impregnator as opposed to a barrier. I promise this clears up whatever misunderstandings. Very interesting reply Mudster. For the record practise you e'er mix your ain adhesives or apply set made stuff. I used powder mix Bal grout, following advice off this forum, and I was amazed at how much better it is than the ready mixed stuff I take used in the past. Is this truthful of all adhesives likewise? DWD Then we shouldn't be putting pva on the walls before plastering, then???????????? Handyandy - really Mudster, As point out Ardex, BAL and Nicobond say don't use PVA. I accept only had experience with unibond products and they say on the instructions that "very porous surfaces should be primed using a mixture of i part unibond PVA and 5 parts water, which must exist allowed to dry" This is the reason I advise to use PVA. Obviously in future if I postal service communication I will add this to information technology so there is no defoliation. Thank you for all y'all advice. icidentally do think Ardex, BAL and Nicobond products are better than unibond? Squeaky And what most Dunlop? I'thousand about to tile my bathroom floor, and the tile supplier suggested Dunlop adhesive with an additive to go far flexible. I've always used mixed my own adhesives and grouts, generally because they are far higher specs than any ready mixed product. I tin can also mix the adhesive to a consisency that suits what I'1000 doing, and as a general rule cement based adhesives that crave mixing can be bedded essentially thicker than ready mixed adhesives. However because I dont employ ready mixed products I'm not really in a position to say of they are good or not, I tend to stick with what I know works. As for the BAL Grout, real piece of cake to use, just always mix these things mechanically if you tin (a whisk in a drill is perfect). Ardex F4 wall grout is not as nice to use as BAL - Nicobond tilers grout is just the same equally Bal grout only tin exist ordered with a bright white stop (sometimes the bal finish can appear a trivial flossy against a brilliant white tile). Alwaqys remember to read spec sheets in conjunction with what it says on the side of agglutinative tubs. Many adhesives that say they are suitable for showers are designed to cope with a hand held shower off bath taps, once a pumped shower or shower cubicle enters the equation, this blazon of adhesive is ofttimes no longer within the required specification. Squeaky, Unibond know what they are doing with their own products, and I take to say I've never used a unibond product. Not because I'm prejudiced, but considering I've had no demand. If were honest, Ardex, Nicobond and BAL primers probably incorporate PVA, but they also contain other chemicals that make them suitable for the purpose for which they are designed. If unibond say it's okay to do this with their adhesive, and then you can get no better than the manufactureres recomendation. Screwfox, Every manufacturer provides a spec sheet or has information nearly what substrates it's adhesive is desgined to be used on. They also offer technical assist lines and are genuinely pleased to offering advice on these lines. I'd be surprised if yous tile supplier would advise you to employ something unsuitable. If you desire to double cheque, choice up the phone and call the number on the back of the Dunlop bag.. Handyandy, I can't annotate on this, I'm a tiler non a plasterer and the respond to this question probably is "It depends on the what the substrate is and how much mechanical grip is available to the plaster". handyandy i have pasted about of your answer from mudster with a few adjustments for treating before plastering..... When you treat a surface with PVA it partly soaks in and partly sits on the surface of the substrate much in the aforementioned way as wallpaper paste. If PVA gets moisture information technology becomes slightly live once again, it doesn't completely render to it's liquid state but it becomes viscid. this is where information technology is ideal to skim When you spread plaster onto the wall, the water in the plaster makes the PVA live simply stops the plaster from penetrating the substrate and providing a mechanical grip, thus giving a barrier from the existing wall plus an adhesive for your new skim. there is no need to skim whilst pva is however tacky as, with your new skim, it 'comes dorsum' with moisture conterary to popular belief. promise this clears a few things up & thanx to mudster. dj. Hi Mudster i have a question i take just formed a concrete shower base and intend to tile information technology, can you advise all-time adhesive and grout to employ in a tiled shower and what to seal the concrete with? would really appreciate your advice. Hi Mudster (I'm actually going to take to resurect my 'choice of username' thread...) First-class info - very useful, thanks. DWD, I've given upwards on ready-mixed adhesive/grout because it relies on the solvent (water?) evaporating, which causes the stuff to shrink - this is very evident with grout especially, which ofttimes needs to be re-applied to fill in the collapsed middle. So, mix-to-use type is then much ameliorate in every respect. How-do-you-do Carl, A shower base is near as hard going as it gets for tiling (apart from being outside). So become for a skillful quality powder based adhesive. If setting time is not an issue (you don't need to walk on information technology same day) and then there is no reason to get for rapid fix materials. I'd recommend Ardex X7 and buy the colour agglutinative that suits your grout - white for light grout - grey for dark grout. Your Ardex supplier will have a suitable primer for use with the agglutinative. If your supplier doesn't stock Ardex, then ak for an X7 equivalent every bit they are considered industry standard. BAL flooring tile adhesive with BAL APD primer would do the same thing. The principal thing is detect a tile distributor if you tin and buy from them - you'll exist sold the correct production. Ever tell them what yous are sticking to - and what you are sticking downwardly...stone, ceramic or porcelain. Adept luck. Hi Mudster, actually capeesh your help, thank you. As I've now found "THE" PVA thread I'll stick my ii penneth here. Plasterer was going to resurface my bathroom - all different thicknesses and surfaces. A weak PVA seal was advised then I did it. I used Wickes Waterproof PVA, thinking that I didn't want it soluble. Result was than the plaster skim didn't stick particularly well to some of the surfaces (I chased it and noticed it coming away quite easily). Also the skim plaster, which had the guy'south usual amount of PVA in, only this waterproof one again, took much longer than usual to go off. Luckily I haven't sealed all over the plaster with information technology. It might be perfect for that, but I'm non prepared to experiment! Share This Page connhosee1963.blogspot.com Source: https://community.screwfix.com/threads/tiling-on-concrete.104012/ Share this post
How-do-you-do All I am nigh to attempt to tile my conservatory Floor(porcelain floor tiles) Which has just been laid. Does the new physical demand to be sealed Before i can lay the tiles? Help! Nev
Hi I recently tiled my conservatory. First matter i'd cheque is that is as close to level all the way across. I didn't and topped up using more adhesive than I should of to make upwards for the deviances in the floor. The physical should exist sealed. What sealer y'all employ is dependant on the adhesieve you use. I used diluted PVA it advised this on the adheiseve I was using (although I read somewhere on one of these forums you shouldn't utilize PVA). This prevents the flooring from sucking the moisture out of the adhesive before information technology sets and seals in any grit on the surface.
PVA isn't practiced, don't use it with whatsoever course of tiling... You should seal the floor with a suitable primer that is compatible with the adhesive you buy. i.e. buy Ardex primer for Ardex agglutinative, BAL primer for BAL adhesives... Finer it stops the draw (the sponge effect of the dry out concrete) and creates a better adhesive bond. Likewise with porcelain tile, bank check that the adhesive y'all choose is suitable for porcelain, ceramic tile adhesive is not good enough. A quick read of the pocketbook should tell you lot that it's suitable. BAL produce most of their adhesives containing "Porcelbond" and additive which makes them suitable for porcelain tile. But Ardex don't - so you would accept to apply an expensive admix - Ardion 90 to overcome this. Do your homework and y'all'll be only fine.
Mudster You say don't utilise PVA on any form of tiling. All the advice I've ever been given has said use PVA to prime walls/floors. When I search websites for info on this I can find diverse websites that tell you to use PVA just none that tell you not to. This website is a proficient instance http://world wide web.axp.mdx.air conditioning.uk/~john49/tilefaq.htm (sad it'due south non a proper "link" as I don't know how to insert them) If you read whatever of the website in item the guy actually seems to know his stuff. I'm non proverb you don't. I'm just puzzled as to the conflicting advice. Plus I don't want my tiles to autumn off of my bathroom walls or come loose from my floor as I primed with PVA. Squeaky
In that location are many roads to Rome. What works for one person is a disaster for another - such is life! I think there are many unlike grades/types of PVA product on the market. Over-dilution with water causes issues likewise.
Hello Squeaky, I took a look at the webstie you lot linked, this sadly is the misinformation I'm faced with on a daily basis. I should expand on who I am and why I appear to hate PVA so much! I'm a professional tiling contractor, I now mainly specialise in natural products but over the years I've stuck upward (or down) every blazon of tile there is. I take to give guarantees for my work (many of these projects are commercial such every bit sports center showers and changing rooms). For me to be able to give guarantees I need to follow strictly the specification of the adhesive manufacturers. Ardex, BAL and Nicobond are the 3 suppliers I utilise most. Their products are similar in many respects, sometimes one will make products the other don't, and I as well find some of there products more useful in different applications. All three of them have i thing in common, they all specifiy that nether no circumstances may PVA be used before using whatever of their adhesives. If you do all guarantees are void. OK why and so? Well I asked this question to Ardex when I one time had problem, I'd tiled a bathroom that had been constructed in 25mm Marine ply. Thinking he was doing the right thing, the builder got his guys to seal the ply with unibond PVA...I wasn't aware of this. I tiled it and 6 months later every single tile fell off the ply, the adhesive solidly stuck to the tile but came make clean a whistle off the ply. We had Ardex Technical downwards to the site to compile a report, the footing of which was it's the PVA that causes the trouble. When you treat a surface with PVA it partly soaks in and parlty sits on the surface of the substrate much in the same fashion equally wallpaper paste. If PVA gets wet information technology becomes slightly alive again, it doesn't completely return to information technology's liquid state simply it becomes viscid. When you spread tile adhesive onto the wall, the water in the adhesive makes the PVA live and stops the agglutinative from penetrating the substrate and providing a mechanical grip. Basically your tiles, grout and adhesive are being held to the wall by a thin layer of PVA. Most tile agglutinative works past crystalising when it sets (some are slightly unlike such as epoxy based ones) but generally they all work the same manner. In one case the agglutinative starts to gear up crystals from and expand into any imperfections in the substrate surface (at a microscopic level) to create a grip. PVA stops this process by creating a bulwark between the substrate and the tile adhesive. Ok and so whats the divergence betwixt this and Ardex or BAL primer, well basically the tile manufacturers primers soak right in to the substrate and stop the sponge like "draw "effect but they don't glaze the surface in any fashion, they are an impregnator as opposed to a barrier. I promise this clears up whatever misunderstandings.
Very interesting reply Mudster. For the record practise you e'er mix your ain adhesives or apply set made stuff. I used powder mix Bal grout, following advice off this forum, and I was amazed at how much better it is than the ready mixed stuff I take used in the past. Is this truthful of all adhesives likewise? DWD
Mudster, As point out Ardex, BAL and Nicobond say don't use PVA. I accept only had experience with unibond products and they say on the instructions that "very porous surfaces should be primed using a mixture of i part unibond PVA and 5 parts water, which must exist allowed to dry" This is the reason I advise to use PVA. Obviously in future if I postal service communication I will add this to information technology so there is no defoliation. Thank you for all y'all advice. icidentally do think Ardex, BAL and Nicobond products are better than unibond? Squeaky
And what most Dunlop? I'thousand about to tile my bathroom floor, and the tile supplier suggested Dunlop adhesive with an additive to go far flexible.
I've always used mixed my own adhesives and grouts, generally because they are far higher specs than any ready mixed product. I tin can also mix the adhesive to a consisency that suits what I'1000 doing, and as a general rule cement based adhesives that crave mixing can be bedded essentially thicker than ready mixed adhesives. However because I dont employ ready mixed products I'm not really in a position to say of they are good or not, I tend to stick with what I know works. As for the BAL Grout, real piece of cake to use, just always mix these things mechanically if you tin (a whisk in a drill is perfect). Ardex F4 wall grout is not as nice to use as BAL - Nicobond tilers grout is just the same equally Bal grout only tin exist ordered with a bright white stop (sometimes the bal finish can appear a trivial flossy against a brilliant white tile). Alwaqys remember to read spec sheets in conjunction with what it says on the side of agglutinative tubs. Many adhesives that say they are suitable for showers are designed to cope with a hand held shower off bath taps, once a pumped shower or shower cubicle enters the equation, this blazon of adhesive is ofttimes no longer within the required specification.
Squeaky, Unibond know what they are doing with their own products, and I take to say I've never used a unibond product. Not because I'm prejudiced, but considering I've had no demand. If were honest, Ardex, Nicobond and BAL primers probably incorporate PVA, but they also contain other chemicals that make them suitable for the purpose for which they are designed. If unibond say it's okay to do this with their adhesive, and then you can get no better than the manufactureres recomendation.
Screwfox, Every manufacturer provides a spec sheet or has information nearly what substrates it's adhesive is desgined to be used on. They also offer technical assist lines and are genuinely pleased to offering advice on these lines. I'd be surprised if yous tile supplier would advise you to employ something unsuitable. If you desire to double cheque, choice up the phone and call the number on the back of the Dunlop bag..
Handyandy, I can't annotate on this, I'm a tiler non a plasterer and the respond to this question probably is "It depends on the what the substrate is and how much mechanical grip is available to the plaster".
handyandy i have pasted about of your answer from mudster with a few adjustments for treating before plastering..... When you treat a surface with PVA it partly soaks in and partly sits on the surface of the substrate much in the aforementioned way as wallpaper paste. If PVA gets moisture information technology becomes slightly live once again, it doesn't completely render to it's liquid state but it becomes viscid. this is where information technology is ideal to skim When you spread plaster onto the wall, the water in the plaster makes the PVA live simply stops the plaster from penetrating the substrate and providing a mechanical grip, thus giving a barrier from the existing wall plus an adhesive for your new skim. there is no need to skim whilst pva is however tacky as, with your new skim, it 'comes dorsum' with moisture conterary to popular belief. promise this clears a few things up & thanx to mudster. dj.
Hi Mudster i have a question i take just formed a concrete shower base and intend to tile information technology, can you advise all-time adhesive and grout to employ in a tiled shower and what to seal the concrete with? would really appreciate your advice.
Hi Mudster (I'm actually going to take to resurect my 'choice of username' thread...) First-class info - very useful, thanks. DWD, I've given upwards on ready-mixed adhesive/grout because it relies on the solvent (water?) evaporating, which causes the stuff to shrink - this is very evident with grout especially, which ofttimes needs to be re-applied to fill in the collapsed middle. So, mix-to-use type is then much ameliorate in every respect.
How-do-you-do Carl, A shower base is near as hard going as it gets for tiling (apart from being outside). So become for a skillful quality powder based adhesive. If setting time is not an issue (you don't need to walk on information technology same day) and then there is no reason to get for rapid fix materials. I'd recommend Ardex X7 and buy the colour agglutinative that suits your grout - white for light grout - grey for dark grout. Your Ardex supplier will have a suitable primer for use with the agglutinative. If your supplier doesn't stock Ardex, then ak for an X7 equivalent every bit they are considered industry standard. BAL flooring tile adhesive with BAL APD primer would do the same thing. The principal thing is detect a tile distributor if you tin and buy from them - you'll exist sold the correct production. Ever tell them what yous are sticking to - and what you are sticking downwardly...stone, ceramic or porcelain. Adept luck.
As I've now found "THE" PVA thread I'll stick my ii penneth here. Plasterer was going to resurface my bathroom - all different thicknesses and surfaces. A weak PVA seal was advised then I did it. I used Wickes Waterproof PVA, thinking that I didn't want it soluble. Result was than the plaster skim didn't stick particularly well to some of the surfaces (I chased it and noticed it coming away quite easily). Also the skim plaster, which had the guy'south usual amount of PVA in, only this waterproof one again, took much longer than usual to go off. Luckily I haven't sealed all over the plaster with information technology. It might be perfect for that, but I'm non prepared to experiment!
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